You know I realized the reason why I really don’t like Klaroline us not really due to the pairing itself. I have no moral qualms with the abuse of it because it’s literally impossible with any TVD ship and I really don’t like the idea of quantifying abuse. If I hate one ship due to abuse I have to hate them all including my favorite ship, Bonkai, because abuse is abuse, plain and simple it’s terrible in every form and saying one is worse than the other does nothing more than trivialize serious matters because it wasn’t as bad. It’s unfortunate that certain things have to be overlooked, but I do feel that it works better in Kai and Klaus’ case due to their roles as antagonists however I still don’t consider them excuses.
The reason I don’t like Klaroline is because I now can’t help but think about the role they play in the oppression of Tyler and Bonnie. I used to like Klaroline, hell I even used to like Delena (but that got ruined for a whole slew of other reasons that didn’t even require deeper thought) because I used to be a very casual viewer of TVD, it wasn’t really a show I took that seriously so I pretty much took what ever the spoon fed me until season 5 when as a casual viewer I couldn’t even stomach it and had to stop watching. To this day I still haven’t seen the entirety of that season. But back to my point, now I really don’t like Klaroline because I can’t separate the reason why it’s there to begin with and the characters it screwed over with it’s existence.
I’m so lukewarm about most non-Bonnie ships, I don’t really think about why I don’t care for any of the other ones. But I think you probably encapsulated why I’m neutral towards KC.
The Tyler thing makes me so sad, he changed so much and became so complex only to be discarded and his final death was so 😒 And I can’t even think about Bonnie’s treatment w/o getting mad and I’ve acknowledged before that great literary criticism could be academically written about it.
This was a great meta
Well when the show is intent on not giving your favorite character a romance storyline you kinda have to look at the other romances because that’s all there is. However when it comes to TVD there isn’t a single relationship I’m passionate about that doesnt involve Bonnie so I feel that’s pretty telling on how bad the others are to begin with, and how much better the show would have been if they had explored just one Bonnie ship (and I don’t count Jeremy or Enzo because they aren’t explored there just there with little to no build up and little to no chemistry).
But its weird I’ve never really disliked a ship that had nothing wrong with it fundamentally like I do Klaroline because there really isn’t that much wrong with, it just represents everything wrong with the show and it’s low regard it holds POC’s. It literally kills two birds with one stone and I don’t think that’s a coincidence. Plec wouldn’t have risked her other characters the way she did Tyler with pairing Klaus with Caroline, even if so they certainly wouldn’t have been made irrelevant the way Tyler.
Think about the previous triangle with Matt, Caroline, and Tyler. For one, it was a he’ll of a lot more mutual due Caroline not actively being in a relationship (she’d broken up with Matt). Two, Tyler isn’t the reason they break up. And 3, after it ends Matt goes on to have several independent storylines towards his development that aren’t off screen. Matt’s irrelevance is cause by him being irrelevant, and yet still made more important than Tyler. Like I pointed out in another post, Matt maybe missing from a lot of episodes, but we aren’t missing key things about him as they all happen on screen, a luxury Bonnie nor Tyler are given.
Anyways my long tangent point is that had the actor been white, because Tyler for all intents and purposes is white, that none of that would have happened. Their value wouldn’t have only been connected to someone else, it would have been independent and been utilized in the show.
(Sidenote: do you ever find it weird that they really didn’t explore werewolf lore while Tyler was on the show. They brought in Hayley and shipped her off to another show to explore the origins instead using a main character from the show who probably has a rich history as well.)
Lol with TVD/Plecverse I always wanna be that meme where it’s like “just say you hate n*ggers and go” bc that is essentially what it conveys without saying as much and it makes me morbidly angry that one of my all time fave ships came from such racist filth.
Honestly, if you switched Michael and Zach’s roles, I really don’t think Tyler would have been sidelined like that. And the only reason Matt was sidelined is bc TVD sucks at portraying nuance; like the way they showed Matt being angry and railing against the supernatural and struggling with juggling his love for his friends with his obvious dislike of what they are falls flat bc the show is so bad at following through, staying consistent, and delivering consequences. Matt should have NEVER forgiven Damon for Vicki, his sister was turned, killed, and essentially buried in ditch and most ppl in his place would be fucking over the guilty party every chance they got. I certainly would if what happened to Vicki happened to my sister. Even if I had to work with said guilty party for whatever reason, I would’ve turned on them first chance I got and THAT is how Matt/Damon should have been done.
But if Zach played Tyler? How much werewolf mythos would we have gotten on TVD? Would Forwood (which was a pretty decent Caro-ship in and of itself) have been so disrespected to prop Kl*roline? And like from what I can tell, wolves on TO essentially have Native American history and seeing that explored/sympathized with from Tyler’s privileged perspective and how much he changed from a douche to a decent person would have been gorgeous. How much more would the witch story lines be explored if we had an actress who looked like book!Bonnie? Would we have had B*mon or Bonkai like…?
So much of why TVD ended up sucking is bc it never really did world-building right. And a lot of that happened bc you’re totally right, they tossed out the POC characters for the white characters and the white ships, and it made the show so bland. Storylines were limited bc all the focus was on vamps and then in later seasons when they tried to branch out with the monsters, it was obvious they weren’t trying. So not only was it not ethnically diverse, it wasn’t freaking plot diverse enough to stay interesting.
Matt should have NEVER forgiven Damon for Vicki, his sister was turned, killed, and essentially buried in ditch and most ppl in his place would be fucking over the guilty party every chance they got.
I agree but I think Stefan and even Elena should be added to that list because a) Stefan is the one who actually killed her and b) the way Elena acted after Vicki’s death, her first concern was not that a presumed childhood friend or at least someone she knew her whole life was dead, or even who the people it directly effects, her first concern was erasing Jeremy’s memories and it worked because she proceeded to live life as though nothing ever happened.Vicki’s life didn’t just mean nothing to Damon, it meant nothing to Stefan and Elena, and I don’t see Matt getting over that because the issue is more than just vampires, but the entitlement that goes with it that people just accept.
But if Zach played Tyler? How much werewolf mythos would we have gotten on TVD? Would Forwood (which was a pretty decent Caro-ship in and of itself) have been so disrespected to prop Kl*roline?
Exactly because as yo pointed out, his story lines suck because the writers such at writer. If you look back at his arc a weird amount of time and effort actually go into them. If Zach had played the werewolf instead I’m sure the same if not more effort would have been put in.
So not only was it not ethnically diverse, it wasn’t freaking plot diverse enough to stay interesting.
It is a little baffling that the show lasted 8 seasons, however I feel that has more to do with timing than it does the quality of the show. If supernatural taught me anything it’s that if you have seniority your show is a lot more likely to be renewed whether your shows good or not at CW. Although Supernatural still hasn’t stooped as low in quality as TVD ever did, it took talent to be that bad.
Same. I think I just have this need for Damon to work for his redemption and experience real consequences for being the s1 antagonist (and later wrong-doings), that I tend to hyperfocus on how he gets coddled so unrealistically. It’s just my prejudice popping up, sorry. But a lot of things about how Vicki’s death was handled should be different, it should have caused a rift in the group dynamic upon discovery of guilty parties. Like Matt, Jeremy, and even Tyler against Damon and Stelena, with Caroline and Bonnie kind of caught in the middle? Consistent follow through AND more interesting plot that would have worked well with Jeremy being compelled and even putting in the seeds of beremy (which could have been planted before jeranna occurred, bc I did like them, then seen to fruition later) and Matt/Caroline/Tyler, as well as later SLs for Matt. But I digress, it’s not my show.
I’m as bitter about Tyler as I am about Bonnie, and I always will be. No about of litmus paper can measure my extreme bitterness, I’m so beyond 14 on the pH scale.
I stopped watching SPN after the leviathan season bc I was mad Bobby (my fave character) died. I refuse to go back, so can’t critique recent seasons, but I will say that from what I remember (been years lol), SPN didn’t have the same issue about dragging it’s main characters through some grit. And while I think there were some racist tendencies (did it get better?), characters of color were realistic, they had drives and passion outside of catering to/being punching bags of the Winchesters, whether they stood with or against the bros. I can summon to mind POCs in SPN that felt like real ppl and believable monsters more easily than I can for TVD. But in any case, horror/supernatural/mystery shows of this ilk don’t really age well, and anything of the type surpassing 3 seasons runs a risk of having some really bad, boring, and wtf plots. Although I do agree that TVD execs were especially talented at self-sabotage, likr…I ain’t ever seen such a crash and burn in my life. Not even PLL or GG got as close imo, and that’s saying smth.
Honestly when it comes to Vicki and Damon’s part in her death I don’t think of it as the worst thing he’s done, and it’s one of the few things that makes sense. Do I think he should have had no consequences and Matt forgive him? No, but when I think about how he brutalizes her, it’s in a way that a vampire would if that makes sense. When he attacks her it’s because he’s hungry. When he saves? her it’s because he sees survivor. When he turn her it’s because he thinks it’d give her direction. And then after that is where he proceeds to be the Damon that he is through out the series who takes no responsibility for anything and that’s where it ends up random for me, that is where Vicki is mishandled. She’s a character who nobody besides Jeremy put any time or effort in and she dies exactly because of that. And actually in retrospect I think watching Vicki struggle with vampirism would have been more interesting of a story line Caroline’s because she masters it by the middle of he season. It becomes a non-issue and she just adds to that overwhelming vampire population except with way more screen time. I digress.
But yes I think Vicki dying should had way more impact than being showing that anyone can die at anytime because though that was true that didn’t last. The reason why Matt is usually annoying is that he never does anything, so it’s just him complaining. I would have loved to watch him follow through for once.
As for the potential for Beremy…I’m ehh on it. 1) because I did actually like Jeranna in season 1, but that probably has more to do with Maliese Jow, season 3 does ruin it but not really because of them but because of Jeremy, and 2) there was no real spark there with them. The beginning of their relationship in season 2 is mostly just Jeremy pestering Bonnie until she finally says yes and I can’t help but see that just play out in season 1 going on to season 2, but I guess that’s better for continuity. And I wouldn’t change much about Matt/Caroline/Tyler because there was just so much internal conflict with each of the characters that was so nuanced for a triangle on the show because never once is it treated like “who will win the prize” it was “who’s life aligns more with mine”.
SPN doesn’t really get that much better in it’s treatment of POC I’m pretty sure all they did was get more white which I guess in a back handed way makes their treatment better because they aren’t around to be treated badly. But their treatment, as you said, wasn’t as bad because POC’s aren’t dehumanized and treated like objects, they just come far and few between and die quickly. Although I do have my reservations on how they treated Kevin. The fact that he is currently still dead and a ghost spending the rest of his eternity with his mother still irks me, especially with how much his mother went through only to come back to a dead son. But Imma shut up now.
POC of TVD 